Mat Sabu likes the ‘progressive way’

Written by Sharon Tan, The Edge 

Many quarters consider him a spoiler in the face-off between incumbent deputy president Nasharuddin Mohd Isa, who is seen as a conservative and Umno-friendly, and Datuk Husam Musa, leader of the liberal pack in PAS.

However, Mohamad Sabu Mohamad or Mat Sabu, is an old-timer who can hold his own fort. A fiery orator, who was detained under the ISA on two occasions, Mat Sabu is a grassroots man who is at ease with both Muslims and non-Muslims, thanks to growing up in multiracial and multicultural Penang.

His deep friendship with DAP and ties with NGOs may serve as a plus point as the party tries to shore up non-Malay support as it prepares to go into the next general election.

The following is the question-and-answer session The Edge Financial Daily had with Mat Sabu recently.

Q: How do you view the relationship between the president and his deputy?
A: The deputy must help the president especially in matters of policy implemented through the constitution and muktamar. The combination of Yusuf Rawa (former PAS president) and Fadzil Noor (former deputy president and subsequently president) was very good. The combination of Fadzil Noor (former PAS president) and (current president) Hadi Awang was also very good. But I think for Hadi, if I become a deputy, I can play the role (to bridge) the non-Muslim, other non-Muslim NGOs, youth associations, culture groups and language societies. I can play this role to help the president to strengthen the party.

Q: Is it important whether you are ulamak or non-ulamak to fill this position of deputy?

A: No. Actually, the ulamak is in the Majlis Syura. From president downwards, it can be anyone as long as he is committed to PAS’ struggle and the concept of Islam in the party.

Q: What are the priorities of the party as an organisation at this time in the context of national politics?
A: The political scenario has changed drastically. The non-Malays believe in PAS now. The Chinese, especially, are fed up with corruption, over-spending by the government and money politics. They look to Nik Aziz as the leader who can solve the problem. They believe in the PAS leadership. So it is a good time for us to have more dialogue and cooperation. Ten years ago, we never dreamed this will happen.

We have to grab this opportunity to show our sincerity to solve the problems, especially corruption, money politics and (in matters of) rule of law.

Now things are messy in Malaysia, especially with regard to the concept of separation of powers between the legislature, executive and judiciary. Our duty is to re-install the system. How can the police arrest Datuk Mustafa Ali in parliament? How can police enter the state assembly in Perak and take (Perak assembly speaker) M Sivakumar out? We must give back people confidence. To restore this, I think the only way is to change the government.

Q: Do you think PAS is at a crossroads at this point in time?
A: What crossroads? We are on the way to get to our target.

Q: As a deputy president, what can you bring to the party?
A: Our president is an ulamak, he can bring support from all the Islamic groups or associations. But for the non-Muslims and NGOs, I can help the party. I can try to introduce or propagate PAS to them on our struggles and aims.

Q: Datuk Husam Musa has ruled out working with Umno; what is your stand on the subject of PAS-Umno relationship?
A: We can talk to anyone. We can discuss with anyone but to rule or govern together, I think for the time being, it cannot happen. Nik Aziz said we got a bad experience when we were in a coalition with them.

We can talk to anyone for the interest of the people but not to join or rule together or form a government together. When Umno is in trouble, they will call for Malay unity to fight for the Malays. But when strong, they will take everything. When the people rise against them, they will ask to come together. I don’t want to play this type of politics. This is racial sentiment to save their boat. We don’t want to give them the rope now.

Q: Pakatan Rakyat (PR) is still a loose coalition. Would you like to see a firmer structure?
A: PR is only one year old. So we still have loose cooperation, a loose concept. Sometimes, loose is better because we don’t tie down each other through certain concepts. But we have the presidential council to strengthen our coalition.

Q: But loose can also mean that you are not committed?
A: Barisan Nasional said they are very strong but look at what is happening to PPP. Like the Perak issue, Gerakan wants state elections. MCA also said what is wrong in going back to the people but Umno said no. Their boat is rocking.

Q: What is PAS’ long-term plan on PR?
A: We will work day by day. Slowly. We hope more parties will join us and maybe one day, we will have seven parties, then we can have a common symbol in the future. This is not an election get-together. We are looking at it long term.

Q: What is standing in the way of PR becoming a full-fledged coalition?
A: It takes time. I can’t say next year or next election. We work towards that aim to have the firm coalition. As I said earlier, loose coalition for the time being is good because our members also have to adapt. Previously when we had ceramah, our audience are those in white kopiah (skull caps). Now you have Chinese women in skirts and men in shorts. All these are new culture for them (members).

Q: Who defines the political cooperation with PR in PAS?
A: President and supreme council but to decide to have a coalition or withdraw from it, that comes under the Majlis Syura. We can talk with anyone but the final decision comes from the Majlis Syura. If matters are not controversial to Islam, Majlis Syura will not comment. If it is controversial to Islam or our policies, then Majlis Syura will intervene.

Q: PR and PAS have enjoyed much support in the last election. Is it because of people’s anger toward Barisan Nasional and Umno or is it because people are attracted to PR and PAS?
A: I think both. I think more are attracted to us and of course they are fed up with Umno and BN.

Q: If BN turns around, and people change their views, how can PAS hang on to their support?
A: I don’t think BN can turn around. If I join Umno, I cannot do anything to restore the people’s confidence, especially in money politics. If I want to be a division chief, I will have to spend money. It is their culture for 50 years. Money politics is a cancer. If I join them, the cancer will spread to me.

Q: How do you sustain this momentum of support from the people?
A: Of course we have the by-elections.

Q: But people are fed up with by-elections? And besides by-elections, how else do you keep the momentum going?
A: No. People want elections in Perak. People in Perak are waiting for that. Of course, through our media, bloggers, ceramah and our stand on certain issues.

Q: Do you think there should be more progressive people in the party line-up?
A: I like the progressive way. Look at DAP. Their members are not as many as PAS. They survived on their statements and progressive ways. We are not following the DAP but for certain issues, PAS is sometimes a little behind. So PAS must be in the front row to champion the people on issues such as ISA, police detention. We didn’t play a big role in these situations.

Q: How has composition changed the party with more professionals counting themselves as PAS members?
A: Professionals and ulamaks are not heavily discussed in the party. We know it is only some individual opinions that want ulamak to become president and deputy. But the Majils Syura council said it could be anyone who is taqwa (follow the concept of Islam). Only Majlis Syura must be ulamak.